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Managed Human Rights in Russia — We Can Now Say the Movement Has Been Coopted

  1. Барак – живой человек.
    Откровенный разговор был. Никаких сенсаций. Гуантанамо дожмёт и закроет.
    Про FARA будет новое заявление. Вкратце так

  2. @pchikov
    So with all of Russia's severe human rights problems, why did you waste
    time on very well worked topic of Guantanamo and Snowden?

  2. @catfitz that was his choice, we were talking about the Russian issues

  3. @pchikov Interesting. This article makes it seem like Russian activists raised these issues http://www.novayagazeta.ru/news/104961.html … Is it wrong?

Michael McFaul
‏@McFaul


22h

@catfitz Snowden was discussed.



Details

@McFaul So wait. Obama himself raised Gitmo and Snowden?! why waste their time? https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/376389647368454145 …

@catfitz that was his choice, we were talking about the Russian issues

12:23 PM – 7 Sep 13



CatherineFitzpatrick
‏@catfitz


12h

@pchikov @orlovets So in fact it is "one of you" who raised Manning and not Obama as you indicated at first. Half meeting on US issues??!!

Pavel Chikov
‏@pchikov


12h

@catfitz he said almost nothing about Russian issues



Expand
Pavel Chikov
‏@pchikov


13h

@catfitz ask @orlovets, he was there as well. Talked in Russian NGO law,lgbt rights, environmental issues,pressure on business and activists


@pchikov @orlovets I realize it's been the hipster Russian human rights NGO thing to do to raise Gitmo since http://3dblogger.typepad.com/minding_russia/2010/02/the-hydraulic-equation.html …

Pavel Chikov
‏@pchikov


12h

@catfitz ask @orlovets, he was there as well. Talked in Russian NGO law,lgbt rights, environmental issues,pressure on business and activists

  2. @catfitz then one of us mentioned Manning and @orlovets said on the UN & OSCE. Then Obama took the floor & spent around 30 mins on US issues



@catfitz he said almost nothing about Russian issues

1:27 PM – 7 Sep 13

  1. @pchikov Did you know it is possible to interrupt even a president?

  3. @pchikov
    that you can't have a meeting about American human rights problems —
    especially fake ones like Manning/Snowden which aren't rts

  4. @pchikov
    and ask him what he plans to do about all the really actual human
    rights problems you do have, migrants, LGBT, etc. That's what.

  5. @catfitz are you trying to blame me that the US Pres didn't say enough about the Russian human rights issues?

  6. @pchikov
    You might have called on Obama to boycott the Sochi Olympics for about
    100 reasons, starting with crimes against humanity in Syria

  7. @pchikov Absolutely, Pavel, bc it was YOUR side that gave him the opening with the Manning question. Manning is not a human rights case.

  8. @pchikov Is your movement co-opted? Why do you remain on the presidential human rights council? This is a puzzle to me.

  9. @pchikov
    It's your job to educate Obama on the realities of RU human rights
    situation since he still vaguely thinks Moscow is progressive

  10. @catfitz no, that's definitely not my job

  11. @pchikov
    well that's the problem then. Apparently what u imagine is independence
    is in fact a very managed human rights mt like managed dem

  12. @pchikov I'm still in shock that @mcfaul wd let Obama speak 30 mins on US human rights or any other WH staff. This is just outrageous.

  13. @pchikov But then the entire Putin show of G20 was one Obama should simply have boycotted to protest Syria, LGBT etc.

  14. @pchikov
    And now we see why going and "engaging" and "meeting with human rights
    activists" is so fake and so ill-advised if 30 mins on US

  1. @orlovets @pchikov That you even have to ask the question like this lets me know the state of the human rights movement in Russia these days

@catfitz @pchikov judging by tweets is not productive. All those issues you talk about were raised.

  1. @orlovets @pchikov Not if 30 minutes of meeting went to US problems & you helped legitimize Kremlin's spin that Snowden/Manning r human rts

  2. @orlovets @pchikov Did you raise thousands of people jailed and tortured in the North Caucasus, Dima? Or just the yuppie issues.

  2. @orlovets @pchikov there's a lot Obama can do on human rts in RU. Start by acknowledging its worse, & withdrawing legitimacy from Putin

@catfitz @pchikov I started with Russia is at its worse regarding HR and civil society in 20 years. And that not "reload" experiments but HR

  1. @catfitz @pchikov should be at the center of US-RU relations. Re: Olympics – personally do not believe in boycott.

  2. @orlovets
    You seem to forget the debate we had some years ago. I don't share your
    views on the need to "internationalize" the Russia hr mvt

  3. @orlovets especially not *this way*, minimizing hard domestic issues & focusing on US issues or even fake issues like Manning.

  4. @orlovets @pchikov Yeah, that's the problem. Because the human rights movement, such as it is, can't see its way clear to boycott, hard

  5. @orlovets @pchikov I personally think since I don't advocate bombing Syria, I need to advocate something effective, & boycott Olympics is it

  6. @catfitz I don't share you impression they were minimized. Nor the desire to lay blame on colleagues.

  7. @orlovets I think everyone needs to be accountable, even if they are in a difficult situation. And this was a very missed opportunity.

  8. @orlovets Did you tell Obama that your friend Yurov gets death threats on his SMS? https://twitter.com/sos_hrd/status/373114453039919104 …

  9. @orlovets Oh, I hadn't realized just how awful your position on Snowden was http://gogol.tv/video/900#playAll … It's hard to know where to start.

  10. @orlovets
    But as a human rts activist surely u know that work has to begin with
    CASES of actual VIOLATIONS. There aren't any here. At all.

  11. @catfitz I lost my way through your tweets already, but I see that by the end I'll be blamed for everything.

  12. @catfitz I'd be thankful for help on any of the cases, but not for endless twitter discussion, sorry

  13. @orlovets
    oh, come now Dima, a few rounds on Twitter isn't "endless" But I note
    your evasiveness. And I get it. You're in difficult circs.

  14. @orlovets Your defense of Manning and Snowden is indefensible and a sign your movement has been coopted. The end.

  15. @orlovets I hope the way Yurov and you are playing this works out for you bc it wd be a shame if it didn't do that much! Good luck!

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